For my second conversation of this project, I spoke with Josie Haskins, a young singer and songwriter from Hampshire in the midst of the startup of her solo music career. We spoke about the importance and power of community, and what beauty there is in those relationships with family and friends that have helped her to become the artist that she is today.

Can you explain how you got into music, and how long you've been a singer, songwriter.

Yeah sure! I’m Josie Haskins, and I am 21. I grew up in a small market town singing with my big sister Chloe. Growing up I was massively influenced by Hannah Montana, High School Musical, and Camp Rock, so I definitely was a Disney Channel girl growing up. I think I always knew that I wanted to sing! I got my first little microphone around the age of five. Me and my sister would put on little shows in front our family where everyone had to sit and watch us sing and dance, which looking back is such a funny memory of my childhood.

Oh, that’s sweet, so you clearly always wanted to be a singer or a performer growing up.

Yes! I’d say I’ve always grown up wanting to do music. Bit of a funny story of how I got into music. When I was on a family holiday in America I think around 2014, me and my family were sat in a restaurant and the waitress said to my sister, “are you Lennon Stella?” She said no and then the girl said, “oh, you really look like her, you look so similar!” We just wondered who that was. She thought I might have been Maisie too, because these two girls, Lennon and Maisie Stella were these popular country singers at the time. They were on a TV show called Nashville.

It was funny because me and my sister Chloe both loved music - she played violin, and played some keys too when she was younger - and we both loved singing, but we never really thought about playing together. So we came home after that holiday and she was looking up these two girls, listening to their music on YouTube, and said that we should do some covers of their songs. And that’s how I’d say my music career started! After that I took up guitar from the age of around 14.

It was funny how everything fell into place from that holiday! That same year we performed for the first time at a local open mic night at The Good Intent. I was 12 and Chloe was 14! Chloe was always more musical than me playing violin and guitar as well as singing, where singing and songwriting for me was always what I loved most!

Then in February 2018, Chloe suddenly passed away from Meningitis B. I wasn’t sure whether I wanted to continue my music on my own, but that year I found that writing was a big part of my grief journey and it’s made me who I am today. In 2021 over lockdown, I was virtually in contact with my sister's friends who are musicians and also came together and wrote a song in honor of Chloe - in which we all raised money for The Meningitis Research Foundation. So I believe for me and my journey, it’s that music has brought people together and I have found people who have really shaped my music today!

Do you think music has helped you through your grieving process and dealing with the loss of your sister?

Yes, it was definitely my way of dealing with things. I think it's also nice for my family. Looking back, we’re fortunate because we have so many videos of us singing - I think it’s really nice to have now. I'm starting to work on this new song of mine at the moment, that uses some of Chloe’s songwriting. Before she died Chloe was just starting to use Logic and recording software, and I still look back and there's so many random clips of songwriting she had recorded. There’s this one song she had started with a verse, that I have been able to finish is really nice to have. In a way she still is a part of my music today!

That's really lovely.

It's so nice to have that opportunity to still feel like I'm working together with her. She also had some song lyrics - she didn’t have loads, but had the start of a song - so I liked that I was able incorporate it into my music. I think, having music has been a massive form of my self-expression. It's nice to be able to release music that I hope will also help people who have lost loved ones and can relate to, because I think there is such a stigma around grief.

Yes I’d agree from my own experiences of it.

I think it’s been so important for me to have such amazing supportive people around me that I’ve been able to confide in. I believe sometimes there can be a stigma of grief and that people sometimes feel like they can’t talk about their lost loved ones but its okay to, even though they aren’t here anymore shouldn’t mean you can’t still remember them!

No, absolutely, because they never will be gone, they’re always with you.

Exactly, and she had such a big impact on my music career and how it started, so even now I still like to play her songs and often like songwriting with her guitar.

Chloe has definitely been that loving nurturing big sister that encouraged me to do music and made me believe that it was possible to have a music career. She definitely made me love country music! After she passed away I often listened to more country music and I don't think I would have been a country singer if it wasn’t for her.

It’s so nice that she had such an influence on you and continues to inspire your work. You’ve now journeyed into being a solo artist, so when did you start, I suppose, thinking about it seriously in terms of creating music as a solo artist?

Hmm. For me, my music career probably started around 2020 when I did my music degree at ACM Guildford. It made me definitely learn to put myself out there again. I had always still kept songwriting but only started really releasing my music since 2022.

Do you class yourself as a country artist, or is it that your music takes some inspiration from the genre?

I don’t think my music really fits into one genre! I like country but to be honest, my music is probably more acoustic, a little bit pop. Sometimes it's even a little bit of R&B - I feel it’s quite varied, but I do like the fact with my music I try and story tell. Growing up I loved writing stories. I’ve always loved the escapism of writing and the way I can express myself through my lyrics too. With my stories now, I always have little funny ideas about things that I like to put into songs. It's a bit different though because now I don't have Chloe to song-write with. I’ve always been used to songwriting with her. But I often enjoy sharing my songwriting with my Mum. She loves reading and she’s very poetic. She is such a detailed music listener to the point where she really listens to the lyrics, and she sometimes helps me work on my own lyrics.

I love that. It’s great that you've got that collaborative way of working together.

It's nice, yeah. Especially as I struggle to really come up with ideas sometimes, so it's nice. I’ve also started to write with one of my best friends too - she’s a really good singer and loves songwriting as well. I also like getting my Mums feedback on my lyrics. She listens to music a lot, and sometimes I'll play something of mine to her knowing that at the end of it, I'll ask her what she thinks, and she’ll tell me all her thoughts on it - both the worst and best bits!.

As mentioned you’re still fairly early on in your music career, but so far, how’s your general experience of being in the music industry? What are your thoughts on the gender bias we still see in the industry?

I've had a lot of women around me, but in terms of creating my music, it’s been more men than women involved in the actual creation of the songs. Thinking back to that session we did earlier in the year, other than me and you, there were no women, just us, and the rest of the musicians/crew were guys. When it comes to producers, I’ve worked with Nick (Bowen, Quay West Studios) and my boyfriend, but it’d be nice to work with a female producer, so I'm looking out for female producers as well.

I think generally I've been really lucky. I know a lot of female artists. One of my friends - who was actually my sister's best friend - she’s like my big sister now, which is really nice. I know I can go to her for music advice. She's definitely been a big role model for me to look upon and come to for a lot of help. So from that perspective, I've been really lucky to work with some really amazing women, and I have a really good community of women where we push each other, and lift each other up, and I think that is really so important. It’s nice to see other women thriving, and you can see how hard they've worked to get to where they are, and we always like to big each other up - it's nice with having a good community like that.

I think now I’m starting to learn how to break out of my comfort zone with the music too! Especially with sharing your music, because there’s so much more to it than just releasing it - you have to brand yourself, and I still haven't got my head around that… The marketing. I don't feel like I fit into a category, and I find that really hard, because with the industry, to me, it feels like you have to almost fit into one genre - for example, you have to be quite country, or you have to be this or that, but you have to also look different to other people. I was speaking to someone the other day, and he asked me what makes me unique, and I just thought, I don't know! I mean, maybe I chat a lot, I don't know! Haha. Then he asked me what I thought my image was, and I said I didn’t really know, but I guess I like to be this girl next door that's relatable - it’s really weird when you have to sit and think about it to that level, and I think back to when I was at uni and we had to do websites. It's all about imagery and asking what do you want to portray, even to the point of if your text is bold and details like that. Stuff you don't really think about much before you’re told to haha. So now when I do photos and release music, it's so weird how important even the small details of things getting looked at are, and people perceive things so differently. So as a starting out artist, I do compare myself to so many other artists. So many people that are out there I see and listen to, and I just think I'm really not in that boat yet.

Yeah and again with the image thing, I don't know what my image is exactly yet. I'm just starting out. I don't even know how I want my music to sound like fully yet. So it is weird. It's definitely a really big journey. Generally though, so far I've been really lucky with who I work with. I have a really good music ‘family’ as such. My sister was two years older, she went to ACM too, which is a music college. She had some really good friends, and I think they really took me in. They all got to know me, which is really lovely.

It’s great to have that support network. As you mentioned, you’ve generally been pretty lucky having very little bad experiences in the industry if any, and it sounds like you've actually worked with quite a lot of women, or you certainly know a lot in the industry anyway.

Yeah so far I have. A lot of my session players that I like to work with are usually male, but all of them are so lovely and I enjoy working with them a lot. You know, you hear stuff from other people in the music industry that have had bad experiences which is a shame. Fortunately I haven’t really had any so far. I went through a phase with my Instagram where I was looking at my statistics a lot, and at that time I noticed the audience looking at my content was majority male. I didn't know what to think of that, but now it's definitely changed a lot. I have definitely reached out to a wider audience which is good, because for me, I want my music to be relatable to everybody.

I do think your music is relatable to everyone, as we all go through breakups at some point, and we will unfortunately all go through grief at some point too, but as much as it is relatable to everybody, I also think where you've spoken about these challenges, it's probably more relatable to women in a lot of sense because it’s a female point of view. Especially with Red Wine for example. It’s a woman's perspective of a breakup. So, we are probably more likely to relate to it, but generally speaking, I would say your music is pretty universal.

How have you found the process of making music and pushing your music career around other aspects of your life?

I've only just started working full time, so it's like, the first two weeks of full time work, I came home and I was like, I can't do it, I don't like it, I like being at home, I like having my freedom! I just want to do my music, but I can't afford to do my music, so I need a job, and it's so difficult especially being self-employed.

Yes, I know what it's like trying to keep up with your passion alongside your full time job - it's hard!

It is! So I've got to spend money on releasing my music, and I might only get 0.1p a stream - sometimes I ask myself why am I really doing this? Then I remind myself I'm doing it because I love it.

That’s the crux of it isn’t it. You do it because you love it.

Yeah it is.

What do you feel you’ve learnt about the industry so far?

As someone who’s early on in their career and only just feeling like I’ve entered properly into the industry, I think I’ve just realised a lot that people are people, and everyone, at the end of the day are normal people, however successful you are. You forget that even people in the spotlight are just normal people. Especially with social media, I'm always one of those people that worries about what I post a little bit more than maybe some other people. I find it harder, maybe not being so confident.

You’ve got to find your audience. I’m at the stage where I’m still finding the people that are going to like my music and are going to want to always listen to my music and I guess relate to my music, because I’m at an age where there's a lot of growing going on. It’s finding people that can relate to me or can empathise with that. Someone in my gig the other day was listening to my song, Nearly 22, which is about nearly being 22 and feeling like I can't figure out my life. He was doing the gig, he was one of the other singers on the lineup, and he said to me “me and my friends were saying we're in our 50s, and we still have moments where we feel like we haven’t figured it out!” I put pressure on myself, especially growing up now, where I feel like I need to know what I'm doing, I need to be moved out, I need to be doing this, I need to be doing that, and actually, you don't. It doesn't matter, because every life and everyone is so individual. Yes, we're not alone in our situations, but sometimes it can feel really lonely, and it’s just realising things like that with Nearly 22 too - it's kind of comforting when you get feedback from audience members like that where they’re relating even at different ages. I love that about music. When people can connect and relate to it, it’s a nice feeling.

It is, it is, it's really lovely having that connection with people through music.

A big thank you to Josie for spending time with me on this. Josies’ new single, Red Wine, is out on the 12th April but you can pre-save it now via her Instagram here.

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Women In Music: A Conversation with Josie Haskins