When I started this project at the beginning of the year, I wasn’t sure how it would go. I wasn’t even sure I’d get anyone interested in being involved, to be quite honest, but it’s been such a positive thing for me to do, not only being able to do more of what I love, but it’s enabled me to meet and chat with some incredible humans. This week, I’m very pleased to share my conversation with Sam and Rach from Memory Palace, a band hailing from South Wales and Bristol.

© Alia Thomas | www.aliathomas.com - please do not use without permission

Thank you so much for coming down to chat with me today. For anyone who doesn’t know you guys, tell us a little about yourself and how long you've been in music?

[Rachel] My name's Rachel or Rachel Kate as people know me as. I'm in Memory Palace currently. I've been in bands previously, Devilcry was the one before this. Before any of those projects, I started doing pub gigs when I was 12 or 13 years old. My auntie owned a local pub and I could often hear a blues/jazz band on a Sunday afternoon when I was upstairs in the pub flat, I thought it was great, watching people have a good time and hearing real live instruments. I was too young to kind of be in a pub environment, so I would just try and listen on the stairs. One afternoon I said to my auntie, “please can I go down and listen?” She said, “you stay in the corner, quiet with your Coca-Cola.” Soon enough though, I got to know the band week by week and after a while, asked if I could sing a song with them, and I did, I felt such a vibe. That’s when I started to fall in love with live music. Obviously the screaming came later, but that's where I kind of had that initial spark.

So it's been a fair few years for you then?

[R] Two decades - a while!

How about you Sam?

[Sammy]: So I've joined Memory Palace fairly recently, around 6 months ago and I’ve recently done my first gig with them which was great! I've been drumming for about 16 years altogether. I did school and have always been in rock bands of sorts, mainly like heavier kinds of stuff, but I do enjoy pop music as well and I’ve been in a range of bands, done a fair bit of touring and as well as Memory Palace, I’m in L1nkn P4rk.

Awesome, so tell me about Memory Palace - for anyone who doesn't know the band, what are you about?

[R] We’re about real life situations. I write from the heart and the mind.

So you write the songs?

[R] The lyrics, yeah. We all chip in though if there's any kind of change to the music. The foundation of the music starts with Mike and Alef, the songs then get sent to the rest of the band and that's when we all start to contribute together to finalize the songs.

Generally, the music of Memory Palace is all about trying to put a negative into a positive in real life situations. Negative thoughts and stressful situations happen to everybody at some point in their life, and it depends on what route you want to take by trying to find inner strength to get out the other side. You can feel sad. You might not want to be here anymore. You might've had some trauma, some depression, but that doesn't define you. It doesn't define anybody. It's okay to recognise that you're unwell or something's not right, but it's all about finding something that keeps you here, keeps you grounded. Just something that keeps you going. When the boys gave me ‘Well/Wisher’ to work on, I wrote about a very dark time back in 2017 where I was very depressed, I lost all hope.

I didn't want to be here anymore, but one day I had a phone call literally moments before I wanted to end my life. It was a mate from years ago, in my teens, I thought, okay, this is bizarre, but for some reason I answered it. I don't know what it was - my gut instinct just told me to answer it. I opened up to them on the phone, told them about what was happening in my life, literally like verbal vomit. They listened, really listened which calmed me down. Made me second guess the action I wanted to take. After that, I did seek professional help and I got diagnosed with complex PTSD. The fact I previously wasn't talking, I was just bottling and bottling and bottling, the people I was trying to talk to just didn't want to know. It was hard. So Well/Wisher is all about that particular time of my life. One of the lyrics is “I know I'm not here for a lifetime baby.” So it's kind of, yeah we don't live forever, but let's try to make the most of it while we’re here.

And that’s what Memory Palace is all about. That feeling like you could be in your darkest moment, but just even having that tiny amount of hope or strength or even something you can hold on to for dear life, because if that friend hadn't called me, I don’t think I’d be here now having some fun with Sam and you. At the time it's such an overpowering feeling. You can see why people do go through with it, a hundred percent, but I'm glad that didn't happen, I feel lucky and fortunate, and that's what I'm putting into the music now.

I think that's pretty amazing. Everyone's got such different experiences, but I'm a firm believer that you can really make something positive out of those bad times, which is obviously what you’re all doing with your music, and I have a lot of respect for you to do and share that because that was obviously a very dark time for you.

[R] That’s what we spoke to Sam about, when we were talking about what the lyrics were going to be. I just want to be this type of band where it's not always doom and gloom. As a band we try to put a positive spin on it. Let's have a happy ending. Sometimes I think we can just get stuck in a negative spiral, and that’s okay. When you are very unwell mentally, or physically very unwell, the future can look bleak. I get that, I absolutely get that, just trying to hold onto that little bit of hope can make a huge difference.

Memory Palace isn’t just you two ladies - Mike and Alef are the other half of the band. Sam, you're also in L1nkn P4rk (Linkin Park tribute band) where you are the solo female in the band, so I’m quite interested to know how you guys all work together in Memory Palace, and then also get your perspective on how it is then being the sole female in the band as well - how does it differ, if you’d say it does differ at all?

[S] It definitely differs. I think like us four, we just seem to gel really well. I felt that when I tried out with you guys, we were all joking around straight away, that’s important. I feel like we've bonded a lot and have that connection. The dynamic is also really fun but slightly different in LP where it's me and five guys, but I've always grown up around guys, with playing in bands. The two bands' dynamics are different, but I love both.

Same, but different, right?

[S]: Yeah, for sure. It is nice to have another girl around though haha.

Of course there's a lot of things that you guys will be on more of a wavelength together because of being female. Rach, how has it felt with Sam coming in now?

[R]: I literally had a little happy tear, like a well up, Haha. I've wanted it for ages in all fairness. I was like keeping an eye on her, and that's why I was asking Sam questions like, “so do you do functions, or depping…?” You know, like dipping my toes in, not going to look too needy now, but I really wanted her to be part of the band. She was the shiny one on the shelf that I really wanted.

I knew about her musical capabilities from friends of mine - It wasn't just her musical capabilities though, it was more like how we gelled as people. So when I met Sam we literally just hit it off. And the ball started rolling. Memory Palace was in the process of looking for a new drummer anyway so it all worked out. I wasn’t looking at her just because she's a female - I was looking for a specific type of personality., Going through so many bands and meeting so many different types of people, I realized what type of people I don't want to work with anymore, and that's when I thought she ticked all the boxes.

[S]: Aww, you guys.

[R]: We were saying on the way down to this interview, you go through bands, and the same with life, you kind of have to get through a number of ones that don’t work to then find the right one and you're like, yeah, this is cool, because it feels so different.

I think I’ve got to an age where rather than knowing what I want, I know what I definitely don't want. I've always wanted another female in the band, especially when you wanna talk about monthly cycles for example, there’s a lot more of an understanding with things. It's like the emotional side of it. I get quite bad symptoms - very symptomatic around it, and if Sam has to play drums in that much pain or that symptomatic, then I'm 100% going to sympathize and empathize, and if she needs a break, she has a break, and she'll understand with me as well. That kind of thing. The physical pain and the emotional side of the symptoms. Like some guys can be quite awkward with emotions and talking about that kinda thing, so it's nice to have that female energy to have a shoulder or whatever you need.

Do you find that your symptoms can affect your touring or gigging?

[R]: Yeah, 100%. Especially when playing a show, some days I'm just feel like I can't fucking do this. You just want to be in bed with a hot water bottle with a shit ton of snacks. But when I got to go on stage with extreme fatigue and an agonizing stomach, it can make things feel really quite challenging.

Just touching upon your drumming, Sam, I think it's less often that you see female drummers. I don't know if you think that's true as well, but certainly with the bands that I've seen, there haven't been many female drummers that I've come across. So as a female drummer yourself, what's your perspective on that, and why do you think there may not be so many around, or why aren't we seeing so many?

[S]: Good question. I did a bit of study on this for my dissertation at BIMM Music Institute. I interviewed people for it and it seems like certain instruments are possibly seen as more masculine, such as drums, but I think it comes down more to inclusivity. My best friend in school learnt drums with me, but then she and a lot of other people seemed to drift off and didn't stick to it, but from past experiences it has seemed like it's a bit of a boys' club and harder for girls to get into, harder to be accepted, and respected as a drummer or musician in general. I think that can be really disheartening, and that has a knock-on effect, with less women doing it. To be honest though, I’ve personally not had many really bad experiences, which I'm grateful for. However, there was a report that came out of the House of Commons, that came out at the beginning of this year which essentially said it's still a boys' club. In general, in music, more and more people are speaking out about their experiences. I thought it was getting a lot better and it is, slowly, but I think there's still a lot of misogyny unfortunately.

There's still a long way to go with it, isn't there? From what we've seen in the news recently, people are coming out with all of these claims, all these stories of sexual assault and misogyny that they’ve experienced, which is so disappointing to think that it’s all still happening in this way, in this day and age.

[S]: Yes, it's so sad.

We should mention that it’s really nice to see that more and more girls are coming up in different areas, like with the drumming and the screaming/hardcore vocals, because those as you’ve mentioned are something that perhaps people think are more of the masculine roles. Rach, as a woman who does the hardcore screaming voals, how have you experienced things?

[R]: Even though the music industry, is still mainly male dominated, it’s really refreshing that a lot of women are coming in but if it wasn't for some of the male artists that exist, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing today either. My main influence and my main idol is a male - it’s Mike Patton from Faith No More. I understand that we need more females in the industry, 100%. I’d love to see a massive change in the music industry for women. There are some absolute gems of male band members too though, aren't there? You know, there's some lovely guys too. I just want to put that out there. If it wasn't for Killswitch Engage, Howard Jones, I probably wouldn't be doing as much metal music as I would be now. I have a lot of male influences as well as females. So when it comes to my idols, it's practically 50-50.

When it comes down to being a female that's in a band, before Sam came along, it was a lot different. The boys in Memory Palace are the best boys I've ever met in my life. They are all about girl power. They are always cheering female musicians on, just so supportive. It's 50-50 now, and we’re so happy about it. I think the boys probably love it more than we do haha, it's sweet. I just love the fact that Mike's a family man that comes up with some hella tunes and Alef’s a fantastic musician too, and a gentleman as well. They’re lovely guys and wonderful to work with.

[S]: Yeah, they’re really lovely guys.

[R]: It’s more like the strangers though. Some males in the crowd, or males online that I've never met and I don't really know - I have pretty bad experiences with them. It's the ones who often make a prejudgment or listen to smear campaigns off other male musicians, thankfully it's a low number. They may see me online, or they may have seen me on stage, or they've heard of me somewhere, and they take a dislike to me or think I’m faking it all, that it can’t be real, that sort of thing. I've had experiences where I've been on stage and it's been a whole male lineup, band-wise, and we're all using the same equipment, same mics, same sound engineer, same venue, same everything. We’ll be, say 3rd out of a five band lineup, and I'll take over and start singing / screaming, and I'd come off stage and a guy would say “how much did you pay the sound guy to sound like that then?” but these guys would then be fine to other males like, “yeah man, that was epic.” It's all little digs, and instead of saying it to my face, they would go home online and they'd be like, “she's got a chip in her mic, there’s no way she can sound like that live” and they're there in the room, seeing it live. There's no such thing as putting a chip in a mic anyway, it doesn't exist. So when I can prove that it doesn't exist, they’ll say something like I paid the sound engineer more money than the rest of the bands, that's why I sounded the way I did, and then it’ll be that I’m “faking” it, I’ve paid someone or I’m being sexualised and that’s how I got the slot in the show with my band. And this is 100% not true. All these random rumors and accusations that somehow it’s not “real” when they’ve literally seen it come out of my mouth but for some reason, some guys cannot accept it for what it is.

And as I said to Sam in the car, if I'm a ‘fraud’, wouldn’t anyone who's in the band or worked with me, all be ‘frauds’ then? Because you're all going along with me. I've worked with many sound engineers, live and in studios, they can back it up. So from my point of view, if they’re targeting me, saying it’s not real, then they’re saying everyone I've worked with is, but it's not true. Of course they don't see it like that. I’ve even had people accusing me of buying fans and streams! Local musicians I found out made fake accounts sending abusive comments and messages, alongside feeding people so much shit about it all. How they come to that conclusion, I don’t know. I'm like your everyday girl. I don’t have money to waste online to buy things like that, I would much prefer to spend money on a holiday in all fairness. I feel like as a female we’re set to such a higher standard than our male counterparts; you have to go above and beyond to be seen as the same level on times, and constantly proving yourself or your worth. But I’ve got to the point of not giving a toss about this type of behavior.

There was another time too, which I do want to quickly mention - I was online and I had just played a show a couple of nights before. Just to put into context first, I’m a very loud vocalist and my screams are very loud, a lot of diaphragm control. That has taken me years and years of practice. So when I do my cleans or when I talk, because the mic's been set to a certain level due to the volume of my screaming, it's hard to kind of like talk to the audience sometimes. So there was one occasion where I had to do that with a mic to kind of project my cleans, because obviously you can hear me louder just by doing that, and there was a photo of me like doing that [covering the mic with her hand] over the mic, and this group of men were saying how I’m a fraud because I was cupping the mic. I don't cup the mic when I’m performing - all I was doing was trying to be heard when I was talking to the audience. There was then this whole online debate about how pathetic vocalists are by cupping the mic and this and that, and I don’t even do that - it wasn’t anything close to what I was doing. So unfortunately that was a big deal for me just doing that, but then their mates can do it, you know - it’s fine if they do it. But if a girl is accused of doing it, they make something out of it. I don't understand it. It's usually a specific type of minded people as well.

I wore the Tech Fest top today because they're absolutely bloody lovely people, lovely vibe…The tech family in itself is a lovely, lovely environment to be in. It doesn't matter who you are, what you are, they’re non-judgemental. Anyway when we played it, there was a video from TechFest playing live, and I was doing my low growls, making sure I wasn't doing anything to be accused of being a ‘fake’, making absolutely sure that no one can mistake me doing it, and you know, you could see me doing the lows without having to adjust anything in the mic and stuff, and the view count on that is quite decent. I feel I've got to a point now where I'm putting stuff up to prove myself. I don't feel free.

I can imagine it really must take the fun out of it for you, because you’re then in your head questioning if what your doing is right or will you get scrutinized for it?

[R]: I do, yeah, whereas other people maybe wouldn't.

That's such a shame because you clearly started this because you loved music, you love singing.

[R]: Then, if I prove that I can do it live, it'd be that something different in the studio has happened. Saying that I’m a studio vocalist, that I can't sing, scream, and do that. I just think instead of shouting your mouth off, why don't you just come and see us live, and then make a comment. Don't comment on something you've not even seen or listened to, especially a live performance.

People like hiding behind a computer or phone screen.

[R]: I have called people up on it in the past and they back down once you have stand-up. I'm quite laid back, but once I get going, I'm fiery. So I'll take it to a certain point, and then when I feel like someone has crossed the line, I will speak up. Choose your battles, you know. Some people aren't worth it, whatever they say, but when it's something that could be potentially detrimental to your reputation, it has to be nipped in the bud. You've got to defend that, and there have been times where I have had to confront people, and when I have confronted it, they often back down as they don’t expect it.

The mob mentality as well - if one takes a dislike to you in their click, they all will, for no reason. I'm only throwing some frequencies down the mic… You’d swear I’d run over someone's cat. All I'm doing is just turning up, wanting to have some fun. Have some fun with my friends on stage and in the studio, and then go home, because I'm literally an everyday girl - you know I work hard, go to uni, and have a family. That's my main focus. My spare time is then making music. I’m not in it to want to be famous or see others as competition, I just want peace. I want to enjoy it. If it does well, absolutely brilliant. If it doesn't, I'm still having fun, but it's usually the mentality of those who want to be at the top; they're the ones who want to knock you down, but I’m not in any competition. I'm not participating. So they can carry on, leave me out of it.

It's very unfair that people feel the need to say inappropriate things like you’ve mentioned. I know all art is subjective and music is a form of art. So everyone will have their own opinion of it all. But there's ways to go about things, but there's constructive ways to critique - but then what you’re describing here isn’t even critiquing, unfortunately.

From what we've covered so far, how do you feel that things could be improved or, how do you think people can help women in the industry that are, like yourself, having these troubles? And in terms of helping the industry gain a bit more equality within genders, what are your thoughts on how things could maybe change?

[S]: I think things like this really help, getting the conversation out there.

[R]: Yeah, I think it still needs to be talked about. I read one of your conversations and what they were saying. I thought I know all of their experiences too, it's mind blowing. But I think just getting it out there and talking about it, some people might hear that and realize that there’s an issue. We all need to do better. How can we all be more inclusive?

Do you think it's vocalists, female vocalists that tend to get more of the negative comments?

[R]: I think the vocalist, no matter what band, is generally always the main focus, aren’t they? So I think immediately you're probably going to be a target, but I think what people have got to realise is that just because someone's in a band, it doesn't mean they're this extroverted person. There's some lovely people who just want to be in a band purely to create, and I do feel like people just need to leave others alone to do their thing. Just focus on yourself, guys. If you want to headline big festivals, great, good for you, you do what you need to do. So I think it's more like learning also that not everyone is in it for the same reasons.

Some people see it as competition, and it doesn't need to be. And then there's a lot of us who aren't. If the ones who aren’t in competition are doing pretty well, they're dragged into it by the ones who are, and get broken down. It's like where's this come from?

So yes, more awareness, and I think to improve things, and I'm learning as I'm going along, is to stop bottling things up and being too scared to talk because of the backlash. You may be worried that it will make whatever is going on with these people worse, but actually it is strength in numbers, because at the moment, within specific scenes and groups, sometimes I feel like I’ve turned up to be watched to fail, but what I want to put out there is that these people haven't stopped me with their words or actions. If anything they've got to realise the more they come at me, the stronger I get and the more determined.

Good for you, because you shouldn't have to stop doing what you love just because a few people have their own insecurities and show/voice them in such a way.

[R]: Exactly. I find if you're happy within yourself and within your capabilities and within your talent or whatever you enjoy, you don't care about anybody else, and you don't want to bring other people down either. When I see local bands doing really well, I can't turn up half the time to the gigs, but I'm still there cheering them on. You will notice as well that I rarely comment on things online. I will purposely not comment sometimes because I feel like people will just want an argument, so I even have to be mindful online.

It's interesting for me to hear as I appreciate everyone's different with it. When I spoke to Charlie from Adharma she explained how she’s quite vocal when it comes to this negativity online - the unnecessary comments. She likes to reply to the comments, almost like fight back, which works for her in the same way as when you bring up something to a person face-to-face and they back down.

[R]: I find sometimes if you retaliate or comment back, it's adding fuel to the fire. Sometimes. You know, everyone's different. Sometimes it shuts people up. Sometimes it causes more. If you're constantly quiet, they will carry on, but then sometimes if you do reply, they'll still carry on. So it can be a lose-lose or win-win either way. It's that gamble, but I just don't want that gamble anymore, so I just leave them to it. I take everything in my stride and I take a peaceful approach to life, and that's where I accept people for who they are, you know, good or bad. If they want to be mean, I walk away or never bother with them again. It's not a reflection of you as a person, it's a reflection of them. So if you're hated or disliked and you know you haven't done anything wrong, it’s down to their own unhappiness, inner hate or insecurities more often than not.

So true. For my last question, do you find that there's a nice sense of community within women in the music industry?

[R]: In some places, yeah. Mostly, yeah.

[S]: Generally I feel like they do. In my experience once you connect with another woman in music, there’s an understanding there that you support each other. It would be nice to see more events geared towards bringing females together in the alt scene - my friend used to run Femme Jam, a jam night for female identifying/NB folk which had an amazing atmosphere. More things like that would be really cool.

A massive thank you once again to Sam and Rach from Memory Palace for making the trip down for this and sharing their insights and experiences into the industry. The latest song from Memory Palace, “Cease The Mantra”, is out now on Spotify for you to hear, and take a look at the video too whilst you’re at it. Lastly, if you’re in or around the Swansea area on 3rd November you can catch them live at The Bunkhouse supporting Continents. Sam’s band L1nkn P4rk are also on tour later this year!

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A Conversation with Sam and Rachel of Memory Palace