At the end of February I had the pleasure of meeting and speaking with Amy, a singer/songwriter and all-round kind and gentle soul from Hampshire. Having lived and worked as a musician in London and now back in Gosport, we discuss the differences between the two places for musicians, and amongst other things, what may be necessary to encourage young women to go into different roles within the music industry.

Could you introduce yourself and explain how you got into music, and how long you've been doing it?

Yeah, so I'm Amy Dawn, I perform under Omam Dawn. I started performing my own music about three years ago. And before that I was in a band in London. I've never studied music, and I would say the writing drives me more. My genre is difficult to define - I think some people describe it folk, psych-folk, folk-pop, singer songwriter. I think it's hard to say which genre it is exactly, but it’s kind of a mix, I guess. I think maybe I started more as traditional folk and then it's gradually evolved, as you pick up new chords and you meet different artists and you get inspired by different things.

What is it that inspires you? What is it that comes through into your songs generally?

When I try and write songs… Well, sometimes I try not to write about myself and I find that more difficult. I think eventually I always come back to my own experience and what's going on for me in my life and just hope that it connects with other people. I think, for me, that feels the most true to write about and sing. I guess you know yourself best, don't you? I mean, we're all connected and so if I write about my experiences, it's going to resonate with someone. I think that's the really nice thing about songwriting actually, that it shows our points of connection. I don't know, people write breakup songs, don't they, and other people resonate with it and get some comfort, I suppose. And not just with sad breakup songs, but other songs, you know, happier stories and experiences as well. If someone can connect with the story behind a song, I don't know, it brings some comfort, I guess. And I think, definitely nature inspires me a lot as well.

Maybe subconsciously stuff comes into my songwriting, which I'm like, “why did that come in?” I've got a song where I mention dolphins swimming in my hand which doesn't even make sense to me, but I hope somehow it does, and I really like that journey of figuring out your own song that you've written as well. So I suppose that my songwriting is probably less explicit than other forms of songwriting, which is like, you know, “we've broken up and I feel sad”, you know, which, well, all songwriting has its purpose….

The way you said that, it’s like you almost work out what your own songs mean once you've written them down, not necessarily knowing exactly what that means straight away… Do you find that music helps you almost make sense of what's in your mind at that time? Another outlet of helping you process things?

Yeah, definitely. I think it's maybe the only way for me, actually. I think that's why music therapy and art therapy is such a powerful thing for people today, especially since there's so much anxiety around who you are, and you are encouraged to create this identity online which is so material sometimes - what our identities are. But when you create a song, it's like, that's who you are. If it's true, then it comes from you And why does that come from you, and why sing about dolphins, or, you know, why are they appearing in your hand? Yeah, in many ways it's kind of like dream analysis. You know, why does this stuff come up, and why does it feel so true? Yeah, that's one thing that I find fascinating about music , how it can really help you process; either as the listener, process what's going on in your life at that point, if you can relate to it, or even as the songwriter, work out what's going on in your head at that point. There are so many symbols that we can use, like the symbol of a tree, for example, or a certain type of tree . It can relate to us so much, and we're not really even sure why, I don’t think. But through songs, and through putting bunches of images together, you can create certain moods and atmospheres, and… oh, I feel like an English teacher haha.

How has your experience been getting to where you are now from when you started? I appreciate you went to London for a time, and then you came back down here to Gosport. Do you see differences between London and here in many aspects of the industry?

Yeah, there's definitely a difference, and maybe it's mostly in the terms of live performances, because I feel, unless you've got records or merch to sell, then the only way you can really make music, make money back on your music is through live gigs. And I know my music's quite a lot more gentle and soft than big bands and big, loud things. I do think in London there's a bit more of a platform for these kinds of musicians than down on the coast, where there's still a bit of a kind of indie rock scene, which is great, and which is what I grew up with, and I love it sometimes, you know. Especially going for a jog or something... Getting that high-energy music on, the more aggressive sound. I do hope that maybe outside of London or kind of arty towns that there could be more space for more gentle music, and I do think that kind of connects with female music, too, because it tends to be more gentle, usually. It's not always true though, you know, there's a lot of gentle male musicians, too.

That's something I wanted to also find a bit more out about, because from my perspective, and this is only an assumption which could be completely wrong, but I would say that the genre of music you do is more popular with female musicians. That there’s potentially more females in that genre? Compared to the likes of indie, rock, and rap/hip-hop for example. Have you connected with a lot of female artists, and in terms of female musicians in London, did you see a wider range of female artists there than you do down here?

Yeah, I think there does seem to be, how do I put it… So I have collaborated with other musicians before, and some of them have been male, and reflecting on that experience, it’s always been that they have reached out to me to collaborate, and I don't know if that's just because I'm quite shy and a bit of a lone wolf and, you know, even when I was studying, I liked to work alone and I would do it all myself. So I was very grateful for these collaborations, but some of those did seem, actually, that it wasn't the music that was the interest, and I learnt a lot from that. It did kind of shake my confidence a little, I guess, because I would then second-guess the intention, and I'm sure other women have had this experience as well, where you just have in the back of your head, is it because of my music or is it because of another reason? And I think perhaps that's why there are a lot of solo female performers, because it's harder to collaborate in that way, and if you want to collaborate with another woman, you have to just be a bit more forward and make that connection yourself… Just to add though, not all the collaborations have been like that - I’ve had some really positive collaborations with all the real intentions of creating great music!

I’m pleased to hear it, but that’s a very interesting point you make about it all.

Yeah, and back to your other question, I have noticed there are more female musicians in London, you know. We put on a few solo female nights and stuff. I've got one coming up, and I don't know if that's just because I have more connections in London maybe than here, but it's definitely interesting to think about this, when you do collaborate with people, there's always… because it's such an emotional thing you know, it creates good, happy hormones in you, and when it's with the opposite sex, I guess there's a fine line. It's like a classic, you know, Fleetwood Mac, and all the old school musicians, and, you know, affairs, and I swear it's from the music and that kind of characters you get who play music and stuff, but I think I'm a lot more aware of that now than I used to be before, and I'm sure it will change as well when you become older.

You also mentioned prior to this conversation that when you were learning guitar or music, that you would go to people that you knew with the intention of being taught by them and it would lead to other things sometimes. So it's very interesting that you mentioned that as well with some collaborations you’ve had. It's a shame because as a musician, I'm sure you just want to get on and write, create and play music together, and when other people may have different intentions along with that, that must be disheartening? Frustrating?

Yeah, I mean, it's all of those things really, but I think it's a really weird one as well, because when you write music, it is yours, but it's also for everyone. I did have one collaboration where I was writing all the music, but they wanted to put it under a different name, and there was only a little change between what I would do solo and what I would do as a duo, and reflecting on that, I thought to myself, why did I even consider changing the name? They're my songs, you know? And I think that's something I've struggled with personally, just, like, the boundaries between it is your music, and you have full control over it. However, it's also something that you share, and it is for everyone, and it has no name, really. It's just a bunch of words and a bunch of chords put together in a way that you've designed, and I think maybe because it takes a bit of assertiveness to be, like, this is mine, this is my baby, you know? You have to protect, but also you have to be open. It's such a fine dance, almost. But yes, of course, it’s disheartening when you think someone's as focused on your music as you are, but actually, maybe they've got other complicated reasons for why they want to play a few tunes with you. I just thought of Adrienne Lenker, she's a musician and songwriter in Big Thief. I think she was married to a guy in the band - they were like, musical partners, and then they split up, but they still performed together, even though they were no longer together... It must be difficult, but also it kind of prove that if you want to do music, then you have to be kind of ruthless, like, cut off from your emotional ties to a certain degree, and just focus on that, on that creation.

It's funny though, isn't it, because the creation of the music involves you being really in tune with your emotions and getting those out and being able to somehow put them down in words in whichever way you want to do that, whether it be very obvious or more abstract, but then, yes, I guess there will be times where you just have to learn to park your emotions to one side to continue doing that job. That must be really hard.

I mean, I guess it depends on the circumstance, but yeah, there's a lot of moral. I think, in a way, it's always been there. A lot of moral decisions you have to make when you share music. Questions like, do you write a song about the relationship you're in right now and share that when it could have a negative impact on your relationship, for example? I think it just depends on what your priorities are. If music's at the top, then you do what you have to do. You know, write about how your partner's really pissed you off haha but if it's not, then speak to your partner and sort things out and then write a happy love song. I think it depends how much music means to you and whether you think it will serve other people as well.

Very true. So from where you are in your music career, in the spaces that you go to, what are your sort of views on the gender balance or gender imbalance? Do you feel it sways more either way anywhere?

I think in all industries today, it takes a certain level of aggressive business to push forward, and self-belief of course, which I think, you know, isn't gendered, it's a deeper thing. But I think from what I've experienced, there's a lot of really, really hard working women in music out there who are not in the spotlight for it, and they're doing a lot of work behind the scenes in terms of like, working in labels and working in venues and creating communities. I haven't met many female producers, and I think from my own experience as well, with collaborations, I've always been the kind of mother of the project, you know, doing all the little bits which aren't really seen on the stage if you like, but they need to be done. And I think in a way, it's rooted in families as well. There's a lot of mothers who are so hard working but they don't really get the credit for that, you know, and a lot of the organisation comes from women, it seems like as well, but it's not really seen as much or the kind of work that they do is not the kind that is valued as much in society. So yeah I think there are a lot of really hard working female musicians out there who maybe aren't credited for what they're doing, and it does seem like as well that women always are about creating a community around something and that kind of family.

I guess it's perhaps in our nature, to an extent anyway. Like you said, you've been the one to sometimes mother the project or, I don't know, would you say nurture it… bring it together. In terms of producing, that's quite interesting because someone else has said that too, regarding the lack of female producers.

Yeah, but it's interesting to think where the money is in music, like there isn't much money in running an open mic, you know, or creating a WhatsApp group around the band or something like this, but there's more money in music production and, you know, running a record label and doing the business. I think, perhaps it's kind of like at school when, you know, the girl picked sociology and the boy picked business, right? That kind of preference. And it is a shame that our society still tends to value the business side of things more, but the good news is, I don't know if you knew, Gosport has been picked as an Arts Council target or something.

So they're looking for people to set up things like musical groups and musical projects, and they’re offering funding for it, so that's very cool. So, I think there is funding out there, and do you know PRS? The Performing Rights Society, for music. There's a lot of grants specifically for women in music as well, which is really great.

That’s really good. I wasn't aware of that, but that’s great to hear. Just to backtrack slightly to the lack of representation of women in certain roles like producing, as you say, the production side of things there seems to be much fewer women around. For example you don’t see a lot of female lighting and sound techs, and within the stage crew - for context I think the last end-of-tour photo I saw on social media showed out of about 30 people or so, there were only two or three women. I suppose as we've spoken about already, maybe it depends on genres as well, but why else do you think that might be?

I think as well, it might be due to the general nature of touring and music, you know, especially if you're a woman with a child. To go on tour is, you know. It’s a big deal. It’s not such an easy decision to leave your child for a six-week tour with a musician, you know, it creates internal conflict. But yeah, I don't know, either, and it might be due to language as well, because I know with mastering music, I tried to learn a bit of production myself, and I remember one of the most important things I learned was that most of it's just about words, and these words sound confusing, but actually all it's doing is turning up that bit of the song or, turning up the EQ on the higher frequencies and things like this. All these things are actually quite simple if we don't get scared by the technical language, or the idea of it. But, yeah, it seems to kind of self-fulfill… The more women don't go into these roles, the less they will, because they don't see themselves in them. It's interesting.

I also think that encouraging more young women to go into music production might help with this gender imbalance, too. All of my school music teachers were quite scary, shouting men. That really put me off doing music at school. There is a story actually, of one of my favorite musicians, Vashti Bunyan. When she went back into music, after her cult following kicked off, she decided to sign up to a music production course at her local college because she decided to record an album by herself. The college rejected her application saying that she was too old and would not be able to cope with the course. Although they said nothing about her being a woman, it goes to show that there are still quite a few misconceptions about what kind of person can study music production or enter the music industry, beyond being a musician. Vashti Bunyan’s autobiography is great actually.

It's interesting especially when you start to talk to people about it, you realise the differences or maybe the lack of female representation in the different areas, because, as I said previously, you're not the first person to say that they don't know many female producers, certainly.

Yeah, I mean I know a couple in London and, it's funny as well, because some of my favourite artists, female artists are the ones that have recorded themselves, at home. It'd be great if there was a funding for women to learn how to make music though - I'm sure there is somewhere. Just not in Gosport haha.

Is there anything else that you would particularly like to mention at this point?

I guess, trying to say a kind of call out for other women in this project, or anyone that reads this to think about how we can collaborate more. For example, this has been such a positive thing, you know, you're doing something creative, it's helping me, it's helping you. We do exist out there, and I think it's important for us to reach out to each other a bit more, and I'm so terrible at it as well, because I just don't know if it's in our nature to reach out as much as maybe men do, to collaborate with each other and go and pursue that thing, you know?

Maybe, Amy, this is your thing to do next, to reach out to someone that you'd really like to collaborate with!

Yeah! I haven't worked with a female musician in terms of actually creating music. I've worked with them in hosting events and hosting nights, but it would be good to actually create with someone, you know?

Definitely. You’ve said it now - it’s on paper - it’s going to happen!

Thank you so much to Amy for taking the time to chat with me. If you want to follow Amy’s work, you can find her on Instagram here and be sure to check out her music on Spotify!

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Women In Music: A Conversation With Omam Dawn